Punishments for idleness, wage gaps, and support for large families: an in-depth interview with Svetlana Jakupova.

– You have held the position of Minister of Labor and Social Protection for over a year. Do you believe that Kazakhs have improved their living standards under your leadership?

– All our work ( MTLSP – editor's note ) and the decisions made are aimed at ensuring progress and enhancing the quality of life. We have introduced a number of innovations designed to improve the situation of various categories of citizens: this includes the entire labor market – 7 million wage workers and 2.2 million self-employed individuals, as well as Kazakhs from socially vulnerable groups, totaling 4.5 million people in the country.

For instance, within the framework of social protection for people with disabilities, we have managed to transform the social services system, digitize the work of career centers to ensure barrier-free access to services, and launch a pilot project called "Innovative Factory of Rehabilitation Equipment," which has allowed children from four pilot regions to access expensive rehabilitation tools.

In the labor sector, a significant step was the launch of a platform employment project, which enabled drivers of "Yandex.Taxi" to claim social guarantees. We have reduced the quota for attracting foreign labor, developed regulations requiring employers to declare labor relations, introduced a special social payment for individuals working for extended periods in harmful and hazardous working conditions, and launched a Digital Map of Enterprises that allows real-time monitoring of working conditions.

A lot has been accomplished and initiated, all with the singular goal of improving the lives of Kazakhs.

– Recently, you criticized Kazakhs for laziness and pointed out that many people turn their noses up at well-paying jobs. You even cited an example of a company in the North Kazakhstan region that has struggled to find a welder offering a salary of 600,000 tenge. How often do you encounter such cases, and how prevalent is laziness among us?

– I cannot say that all Kazakhs are lazy. To take one isolated example out of context and claim that I criticized all Kazakhs is incorrect. Morally, I still bear responsibility for what I say and do.

The fact is that I often receive inquiries from the heads of enterprises who face the problem of a lack of personnel. This is a pressing issue for many employers. And it's not even about people not wanting to work – sometimes they simply lack the necessary skills, and training them requires time and resources.

What I expressed during the government hour was more about the youth, but again, not all young people. Judging by the trends, many young individuals prefer flexible employment formats without being tied to a workplace or the 9-to-6 schedule. Many of them choose to work as freelancers or enter the service sector. Therefore, it was noted that instilling a love for work should start at home from a young age. I referenced China, where children are taught discipline and work ethics from an early age due to the high competition in the job market. We definitely need to think about this issue.

– You have proposed tightening legislation in cases where a person refuses employment. Can you provide an example of how idleness could be punished in Kazakhstan?

– We already have elements for holding accountable those who refuse employment yet seek government support in the form of targeted social assistance. In such cases, we deny the family access to the AOP for six months. We are currently considering extending this period to one year. As for any new measures, that issue is not currently on the agenda. We must act solely through motivation.

– Despite the active measures to promote employment and the creation of numerous subsidized jobs, can we consider these jobs to be of good quality?

– In fact, many deputies have expressed that "MTLSP is employing people in subsidized jobs and believes that it is thereby creating new jobs." This is absolutely not true. We do not create new jobs; we do not have our own production. We merely coordinate the work of government agencies to ensure that when implementing various projects, new jobs are created in accordance with the Labor Market Development Concept, and that these jobs are of high quality. This means that the work should be permanent, safe, provide social guarantees, and the salary should not be lower than the median (285,000 tenge). Currently, there are 2.2 million quality jobs in Kazakhstan, including more than 200,000 new jobs and those that have transitioned from the low-quality category.

Regarding the criticism of tools such as government-subsidized jobs or other employment support measures, it is important to understand that their effectiveness is measured by different indicators. Without them, the vast majority of Kazakhs from socially vulnerable categories would simply receive AOP without any motivation to work, whereas the availability of such jobs encourages people to feel responsible and take on commitments.

The same applies to youth who have been unable to realize their potential in the labor market and are not competitive. Without projects like "Youth Practice" or "First Job," young people would, at best, join the ranks of the unemployed, and at worst, eventually resort to breaking the law. This would necessitate expanding the staff of law enforcement agencies and increasing budgetary expenditures on crime prevention and enforcement.

– It is no secret that today, youth are migrating from regions to megacities because one can earn twice as much in Astana and Almaty than in a place like Taraz. When will the regions be able to catch up with megacities in terms of salary levels, and what is needed for this?

– We are currently working on solutions that should lead to individuals in the same profession and with the same competencies receiving equal salaries, whether in Almaty or Taraz. As you know, there are 755 investment projects being implemented in Kazakhstan today, amounting to 33 trillion tenge. By gathering all the information on these projects, we have developed an Innovative Project Navigator. This navigator allows you to obtain complete information about the locality where the project is being implemented, the population residing there, and the quality of the workforce, all with a single click. If there are no local residents with the required competencies, we will organize alternative resource recruitment from other regions, including unemployed individuals seeking salaries comparable to those in larger cities. Through such tools, we intend to level the playing field. Additionally, the platform will facilitate the formation of requests for workforce training for specific projects.

– Experts from the World Bank believe that current programs for attracting labor to sparsely populated regions are not sufficiently effective. How are you addressing this?

– This is criticism I have heard multiple times. Indeed, people participated in voluntary resettlement while receiving government support, only to return later. We had to revise our business processes. A resettlement map was developed on the migration.enbek.kz portal, where complete information about each region with quotas for resettlers can be obtained. This includes not only standard data on open vacancies or salary levels but also information about the area's nature, historical sites, theaters, and museums. Once a resettler familiarizes themselves with the potential living area and makes a choice in favor of a specific region, they should be met at the station almost with a sign and accompanied every step of the way, helping them with accommodation, property selection, employment, adaptation, and integration into the local community.

Previously, resettlers were largely left to fend for themselves: they arrived in a new region, tried to settle in on their own, faced hardships, realized they were unwanted, felt homesick, and returned. Today, the return rate has significantly decreased – only 108 out of 7,000 resettlers have returned, and these are usually just individual family members. I consider this a normal indicator.

As for the World Bank's assessment, that was a publication based on the results of 2023.

– So, will a different picture be reflected in the report based on the results of 2024?

– Let’s hope so. We started with pilot projects, regulatory acts were only adopted in the summer, we trained all staff at career centers involved in resettlement, and we are developing our digital platform. Additionally, we have established the possibility for resettlers to receive agricultural land plots for temporary use for up to five years without a competitive basis, with the right to extend this period for the purpose of farming and agricultural